Tom Friedman Thinks We’re Getting China Dangerously Wrong

April 15, 2025

Guests: Thomas Friedman

Thomas L. Friedman is a New York Times Opinion columnist and bestselling author who has covered foreign affairs and globalization for decades; he had just returned from an extended reporting trip to China when this episode was recorded.

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About this episode

Friedman argues Washington's bipartisan hawkish consensus on China is outdated and dangerous, and that Trump's escalating tariff war — over 100 percent on China, paused for others — will fail. Fresh from a China trip, Friedman describes an industrial ecosystem that leapfrogged the West: smartphone firms became car companies, robotized 'dark factories' run in the dark, and state-subsidized internal competition (the 'fitness gym') produced national champions in EVs, batteries, and solar. He warns America is not serious: it guts research universities and EV incentives while China builds. His prescription: bring Chinese factories to the U.S. in 50-50 joint ventures (as with Japan in the 1990s) so technology transfer flows toward America, and coordinate gradual tariffs with allies. The two superpowers, he argues, must collaborate on AI safety, climate, and global disorder — 'we're going to rise together, or we're going to fall together.'

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