This Conversation Will Change How You Think About Thinking
About this episode
Ezra Klein interviews science writer Annie Murphy Paul about her book The Extended Mind, which argues that thinking is not confined to the brain — it extends through the body, movement, tools, and surroundings. They discuss interoception, the body's internal signaling, and how gut feelings can guide sound decisions; how walking and movement spark ideas; and techniques like cognitive offloading onto paper and spatial tools, expressive writing, and teaching material to others. Paul explains why open offices and constant multitasking undermine attention, why nature restores focus, and why the computer metaphor of the mind distorts schools and workplaces. The conversation closes on inequality: access to mental extensions like quiet space, tutoring, and green environments is unevenly distributed, raising fairness questions about testing and school.