Chris Rufo Thinks the Right Can Control This. I Don’t.
About this episode
Klein debates conservative activist Christopher Rufo, author of 'The Triumph of the New Right,' about the right's war on elite institutions. Rufo argues the left captured universities, media, and the bureaucracy, and that the right's counterrevolution — defunding programs, dismantling D.E.I., and taking over schools like New College of Florida — is legitimate and necessary; he defends the Trump administration's institutional attacks. Klein presses him on where it ends: Rufo himself has warned of a coming right-wing red terror, and Klein argues Rufo is midwifing a movement he cannot control, citing attacks on universities and deported student protesters. Their core disagreement: Rufo sees an existential war justifying emergency tactics; Klein argues the emergency is becoming permanent and will devour the very freedoms Rufo claims to defend.